You would either have to be authentic and your announcement would be fulfilled or a fool. I can read St. Thomas too, and you are misreading him. We see in others what we are ourselves. Nor did the Vatican assume that Bishop Zanics discernment was correct simply because he was the local bishop. My point was that 3221 is throwing things out as fact, without confirming and verifying such. I just needed to love my neighbor to be saved no matter concern for personal sin, let your (unformed) conscience be your guide, do what feels right It is through this door every grace and virtue flows from the Heart of My holy Mother. Here are repeated two points we discussed above. What of the many miracles and increased devotion so many experienced at the site? Gay couples cant get married in church. That would be tantamount to making the Cross into a god. Nothing to say about all the points I made about your so-called heretical excerpts from HLM? You have the document that proves condemnation. When others disapprove of your participation here, remember Heaven approves.You increase in holiness when your relationship with Me is such that you seek only to please Me.. If there were something erroneous in the doctrine taught at HLM, Bishop Lennon would have stated it. A non-believer can simply read the older warning messages, dated much before any occurrences, and see for himself. The primary sticking point of those who opposedeem falseHoly Love Ministries is, Mary would never lead the faithful to disobey legitimate ecclesiastical authoritynamely bishop Lennon, Bishop of the Cleveland Diocese. Its interesting to read some of the defenders and their circular logic. Its indicative of the state of todays Church, todays Catholics, that so many are taken in by this drivel. The argument that HLM followers are disobedient to Bishop Lennon does not hold up when you look at the procedures happening with an other unapproved appartion site. It is outside of the Churchs teaching and practice and nothing more. Whether or not an organization is under the authority of a diocese it still is free to share Catholic doctrine. This tells me the depth of your discernment if you see the piece that Kevin cited as worthwhile. Ha! In the end, the type of people who go to apparition sites are not necessarily nave or foolish. EXCELLENT and apropos quote from the revelations to St. Margaret Mary. At any rate, when a bishop disapproves of an appartition and warns his flock, they are free to heed the warning or leave it. Dis you read yet my comments a little bit above from this entry regarding your examples of heresy at HLM? Be cautious of what you share about others, knowing that love covers a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8), which means it doesn't highlight or gossip about the failings of others. concrete evidence of why he has made this decision makes me very skeptical of his decision. This site also has articles by the famous Spanish exorcist Father Fortea.). Again, I ask you, get SPECIFIC. This latter is considered a false obedience. Unfortunately, they do for that fakery-or demonic trickery- in a small Bosnian village). Be aware that there are those who tolerate the followers of HL to display objects, holy water, and such in the midst of allegedly Catholic ministries. " Thank you for this article and I hope you and others continue to publicize this. An admonishment is a warning. Bigger trials are coming in the future, Patti. Donovan pointed out that when the Church warns against an apparition and a person believes more in the apparition and rejects Church authority, the devil succeeded in his goal. Now, unless you can prove Lennon is not doing this here, you have no grounds to say Lennon doesnt tell us his reasons, thus his Decree is unjust.. Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them. God can use all things for good. Read all about it in The Rite The Making of a Modern Exorcist by Matt Baglio. The words were cleverly chosen. Look at the history of apparitions. Here is the quote I have come to explain to you the Sixth Chamber. Now youre obfuscating the issue. Do I need to tell you that? I am a clear writer. This is indeed the teaching of the Catholic Church. Well we are in the middle of 2015 and there has been nothing. All this is holy in nature but is not proof of authenticity of purported apparitions. He just doesnt like it. The shrine is on one hundred-plus acres of land, adorned with beautiful statues of Mary, Jesus and many of the saints. Or were they frauds who gave only an outward appearance of religious devotion? (And thats presuming any exist. Let me quote again from Catholic Apologetics: Is not fidelity to the true teaching of the Church to be given. Yes it warns its followers against heretical bishopsas does Aquinas in the Summa Theologica. In the same way Lennons decision is not definitive either. Refuse to gossip or speak negatively about anyone, ever (Ephesians 4:29). Mother Teresa was in a diocese once where the bishop insisted that she and her sisters sit after receiving Holy Communion. http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/02/11/medjugorje-is-generating-what-the-devil-loves-most-disobedience/. Thanks Glenn. HLM is obedient to this request, and no masses are offeredat HLM. Proper procedures were disregarded, just as they were in the closing of the 50 Churches. the bmv took me to the divine mercy devotion thanks to my wife and her dear mother and father-in law. @denis: Well yes, of course Ive heard of Joan of Arc. Christ DEPENDS on us to be His Hands, His Voice, His Presence in this world that needs Him so much. The fact that Bishop Lennon wont provide me or others any concrete evidence of why he has made this decision makes me very skeptical of his decision. I once read that people bring their own holiness to these sites. 3221, back up and read what you just wrote. After all, He is the one who founded the Church and gave it authority. Or an unfaithful Bishop? The apparitions/visions to Maureen have been ongoing almost daily for 25+ years. It made me feel special, especially because I was at such an impressionable age. It both surprises me and saddens me to see HLM defenders remain adamant that somehow Lennons Decree was only a warning., The Decree states specifically that Lennon reviewed the theology behind HLM, consulted a theological expert, was directed by the Holy See to act definitively on this matter and then declared the claims to be constat de non supernaturalitate.. Nor is the Vatican admonishing pilgrims fror disobeying their bishop. He does not because there are no grounds for him to do so. Its not wrong to go to a site where purported apparitions are occurring. Demons can project pretty realistic looking reproductions of the BVM, Jesus and the saints. He is succeeding in making people such as yourself to turn away from the Church and convincing you all that YOU are the faithful ones! Just because they are not listed does not mean they are not approving. And to add to that, Bishop Lennon hasnt warned ~ hes admonished. 3221, if you do not see this, there is no purpose in further communicating with me on this matter. Interestingly enough, mtrv posted on site there, too, and I also had a long discussion with him/her. Peace to all. Weird. Otherwise, I will no longer address the point. You spoke earlier of no proof that Bishop Lennon is heretical. The Holy Love messages, as well as, the messages from Medjugorje helps us a lot. Yes, if we use our free will to sin,we, in effect, tie Gods Hands. None, 3221, none at all. Would to God we were hearing these treasured spiritual principles in our parishes today. Been there. Catholics must keep their heads on straight and not wander from Church teachings, but praying at an apparition site is not wrong. Unfortunately, those have cultish devotion to things like HLM tend to brook no logic. My question to you about obeying the bishopno matter what is to put before you where your blindness is going to lead you. Why did you delete my earlier comment? In light of the above canons and the Christian obedience they speak of, whether it was a simple warning or explicit order forbidding people to go to HLM is irrelevant. Interesting enough, it was also a no show for Marino. By the logic used here, since Joan was disobedient for continuing to claim her apparitions were real, and so she was in the wrong for listening to demonic voices. Would you be equally perplexed if Pope Benedict XVI announced tonight that for the good of souls, Catholics are not allowed to visit Holy Love? Again, I present the Decree for all to read: No other citations are necessary. There are reasons for this my upcoming book Private Revelation: What Does the Catholic Church Teach? goes into this. In combination with Marys heart that would make ten chambers. Since he cannot FORBID Catholics from going there, he ADMONISHES them not to go. St. Joseph - Vestibule Of Grace - Messages | Mary Refuge Of Souls Until and unless that happens, people are endangering their souls by going there. I would have loved to have witnessed something like the pilgrims at Fatima did, but really, I do not need it. It concerns me in a personal way because I know several friends who are what Id call serious Catholics, but are seriously attached to this place, almost in a cult-like fashion. First of note concerns the structure of the Decree. The people of the Cleveland Diocese fought Bishop Lennon fiercely in order to retrieve parishes sold by him and monies taken by him. Medjugorie followers did the same with Bishop Zanic there. If Jesus were giving messages on all truth to individuals, the result would not be thousands of denominations going in different directions. You also are so obsessed with Church law that you are missing what the Church is suffering.. Again, I learned this from Aquinas, The Church is where the true Faith is. You may have the trappings of it, but the Church is where the true Faith is taught, preserved, and nurtured in God and for God in order to lead us to God.. You keep following your canon law rule book, and you will still be studying it when the Church is underground and Mass is no longer available, nor the Holy Eucharist worshiped and LOVED in the institutional Church. But that does not prove an authentic apparition. In what way are you accusing Bishop Lennon of being heretical? I myself have visited a couple apparition sites that proved to be false. Never was a true visionary told he or she did not have to obey Catholic authority. This is so sad that people run after these private revelations that bring some notoriety to a person in need, while the Fatima message is no longer preached. My point in bringing this up is that the corruption within the body of bishops is at an all time high. I suffer for what comes to you. I say this from no sense of prophecy. Instead they gave the Medjugorie question to an independent committee. Thanks. how manny bishops gave lip service to jp2. June 2019: The devil wants to deceive you. it does not mean not heeding a warning from a bishop. And again, if you are questioning such an orthodox, fundamental concept it only goes to prove that you are very mixed up. Then, it becomes a matter of obeying Catholic authority or thinking you know better. Thank you very much for your articles I found these videos of Holy Love on YouTube and several of them seem to be advertisements for the Donald Trump campaign: You had better vote for him or else God will inflict a terrible punishment on America. One would wonder which truth of the Catholic Faith bothers him.. Would you please cite the reference for your information on Mother Teresa? This is what HLM has to do with Medjugorie. That is not to say that they obeyed any superiors request to stop preaching the Truth. Holy Church HAS spoken. Further, no one can or should dictate against Heavens intervention here. Gift Shop - Holy Love I am not going to argue. They had every right to do what they did. Clothe me in Your Divine Will. If there was initial skepticism and resistance, God ultimately overcame it. Bishop Zanecs warning comes to nothing. Our Lord and His Mother lead us into the Church, not away. If you want to go to a site that is true, go to Fatima or the approved sites , but try to really discern what is true and not true. So which bishop is correct? A meeting with Holy Love representatives made it clear that the ministry will not subject themselves to the Catholic Church. At Holy Love, just being outside Church authority is warning enough for me. Condemnation, Mary, is a canonical act. You do so as well.. The Lord indeed is my savior; I am confident and unafraid. Can you imagine St. Paul telling the people of Corinth that they must do X without the courtesy of explaining why. (Someone above has a way you can bring the document up on the internet.Scroll up and find it.)) Very sacred, many miracles have happened to my family and miraculous blessings that I have asked for when I have gone there to Pray to the Blessed Mother statue at the Lake of Tears. industry and mothers considering abortion.". By giving their disappointment to God and continuing to walk with him, they acknowledge that his Church is bigger than a single ministry or the claims of any purported visionary. Satan will tolerate good to ultimately sew evil. But, we dont consecrate ourselves to the Cross. I realize I did not know nor could I have ever guessed but I do feel ashamed to have offended by being ignorant. her eyes are so blinded and all I can do is pray and mention it now and then It is a warning and it contains no forbidding of persons to go to HLM. I am All Three. Thank you for posting that. I dont use my emotions to discern. HLM is not condemned by the Church. Now compare that Jesus with the Jesus from Holy Love.. We cannot go wrong following it. My reference is the newspaper,The Wanderer I do not know which issue, butif you contact them I am sure they can hjelp yo locate the correct issue. Given that he himself may have an all-too human agenda for nixing HLM, and add to that he will not give a reason for his disapproval, and add to that the corruption that now infiltrates the Catholic Church, I am very wary of him. These are my answers to your points about which you claim that HLM is in error. Had a friend who could not have a baby. To Tom D: I too went to Conyers, GA as well as Kettle River and stopped by Necadah, WI once when I noticed a large billboard advertising a Marion Shrine. They pray and love God. The above is more about emotions and passions run amock than the practicing of Divine/Catholic Faith (to say nothing of Reason). If what is taught by an appointed servant of God (bishop, priest, or Pope) is contrary to Catholic teaching, they are not to be obeyed, but even publicly rebuked. WORDING IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT IN CANONMICAL DOCUMENTS. When bishops fail in their teachings and in safeguarding the fullness of the Faith, they are not to be obeyed so that one may be faithful to the Church. I think that you are referring to when I quoted St. Catherine of Sienas Dialogues wherein God the Father tells her to keep her spiritual life between Him and growing in self knowledge. You will be chastised by friends and family for being so true to the faith. The remnant are not those necessarily following HLM, but rather those who follow the truths of the Catholic Church with a humble openness to God.If one is doing this, one does not necessarily need HLM to tell them what one already knows. I just find it so sad that this place is set up right beside a genuine Apparition Site here In Ireland. And anywhere the Heaven has touched down onto a privileged soul, you will find that either the home or place where they continued to TRULY appear have never been sold!