Pmag Problem | Northeastshooters.com Forums Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. PMAG problems - Midwest PX - New Jersey Gun Forums Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another P-Mag bolt catch issue. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. All Rights Reserved. NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more forward in the mag body, and the end of the catch tab is not lifted upwards to active the catch. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. PMAG "bolt catch interference" Issue with LMT MWS TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. The ones I used were my friends and I checked the bolt catch before I shot. All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. Also don't buy anything from Beavercreek Armory in Hillsboro, Oregon as they screwed me over with this poorly built, out of spec rifle. Privacy Policy. Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. When the PMAG 20LR is inserted into the magazine well, some MWS rifles exhibit interference between the bolt catch and the rear of the magazine. Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/, Bolt catch is from a TacFire .308 AR Lower Parts Kit (not for an AR-15). Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. PMAG bolt lockback fix | Springfield XD Forum Sounds like the pmag is riding a little high and rubbing the bottom of the carrier a bit. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. Copyright © 308AR.com 2023 You cannot paste images directly. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. PSA PA-10 Magazines, quick question. | Sniper's Hide Forum Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. I'll have to get measurements later. These same parts are available from other vendors. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. Excellent work with the pics and details. PMAG feeding problem, jamming on chamber face Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot (by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved!* As weird as this will sound, you need to measure the length of your recoil buffer, and the internal depth of your buffer tube and post it here in addition to the excellent info already provided. For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. By Special thanks to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the cost of ammo, and a special thank you to you all for watching. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. One new winner* is announced every week! After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. The issue is with bolt lock back. PMAG Problems - Calguns.net I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. The bolt passes over the cartridge instead of stripping it from the magazine. New production Colt-pattern U.S. GI mags are four to five dollars cheaper than generation three PMAGs. How is it though that my. I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? edit: i just got them. check out the. Because both symptoms exist, it seems that the components within each receiver may be too far from each other which leads me to suspect that the interface between the upper or lower is too thick. You are using an out of date browser. Cookie Notice It may not display this or other websites correctly. I just checked and my BM lower does the same. Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. Magpul needs to tweak their mold a bit before they make the claims they do. #5. It was initially 0.323 deep. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. Correction to original post: If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). Just did this, no difference. One new winner* is announced every week! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. My fix was with Gen2 pmags. Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. Your previous content has been restored. Why I Don't Use PMAGs and our Pmags have worked fine in the past. The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. I'm sure someone here can find that thread on the mag catch heights. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. (not my lower, but my exact problem!) I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=Sig+bolt+catch. . The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. The Fix: 1.) Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. What corresponding dimensions do you have? How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. i have thermolds, and usgi mags and the rest of them work perfectly.. Scan this QR code to download the app now. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. Loading magazines at home means more shooting time at the range. This solution will meet some states permanence requirements. Operation of any AR MAGLOCK products outside the standard method of operation or its original intended use may cause non-compliance to laws / regulations, and injury or death. I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Could i just have faulty mags? The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but I'd first like to solve the feed problem. To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Hey, everyone. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. Also, we'll be happy to correct or delete anything if you point it out to us in the meantime. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. Paste as plain text instead, It may not display this or other websites correctly. Fig. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I deepened the hole to 0.480. Could the magazine be too low? I read through the threads dealing with this issue. Well, there are several reasons for this. 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. Your link has been automatically embedded. I started construction with the lower at 80%. I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. 8: Bolt Carrier to upper receiver = 0.283. Also, PMAGs had trouble fitting in firearms like the British SA-80/L-85, and will not fit in the FN FS-2000 without the user modifying the weapon by removing a component that serves to seal the weapon from dirt and debris. Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . The follower I wouldn't think should have witness marks on it though. Pics to follow. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. No need to answer that last question. I get asked a lot why, in almost all of my reviews or videos, I use good old-fashioned U.S. GI steel magazines in lieu of Magpul PMAGs, a popular alternative that most shooters these days are familiar with. I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. Either the hole gets deeper, or a couple coils come off the spring, or the tail on the plunger gets shortened. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. Upload or insert images from URL. I deepened the hole to 0.480. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. Its Alex C. with TFBTV. Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! You can post now and register later. I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isn't present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Im almost through with my build, however I have noticed that my Seekins enhanced Bolt Catch in my Anderson lower is not locking back on PMags like it does on my aluminum and steel magazines. Is it the length of the plunger? Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. :??? This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. "And here remain with your uncertainty! AR10 bolt catch issues : r/AR10 My Pmag20 wont last round bolt hold open and fails to feed 10% of the Some rifles are just finicky. These two pics right here, and the height difference. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. Seamac, did you have to modify the black polymer on the mag? Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). That should fix it. Magpul PMag issues Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. The mag on the left is the metal 10 round mag, the two to the right are Pmags. I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". The P-mags always functioned. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. I inspected my mags after I received my order and that's when I saw the bolt catch was up and went wtf face palm*. Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + Advice Needed - AR15.COM Mag still wobbles the same and the error still remains. and might have several still in the packaging. Next up is damage to the SCAR. NEVER use this product outside the standard method of operation as it will cause the rifle to no longer be in compliance and you risk arrest. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. It did. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! The main concern is the failure to feed. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. What measurements do you have on your lower? The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . 16s and pmag Gen 3 problems!! | FN Herstal Firearms I picked up a SCAR 16s last week and put 50 rounds through it with no problems at all (using the FN mag). Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? . All Rights Reserved. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. After installation of the ARMagLock the button is. PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. This is. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I just don't know why my friend has witness marks on his pmags after use in my Scar 16s. Display as a link instead, Professional. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. I included a pic of the mag fully inserted, then a mag with the follower pushed down to the point of where the bolt catch stays flat. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube Press the AR MAGLOCK magazine release button. It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. We STRONGLY encourage all users to always use the new PMAG magazine or some other 10 round magazine solution with a removable floor plate. I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. Think it could be magazine springs? Thanks for the reply. They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions - AR15.COM Also the follower rides the bolt catch up A LOT. Posted July 20, 2016 in Shooting Accessories, TFBTV by Alex C. with 210 CommentsTags: I'm the guy at the store with 27 coupons, Magpul, pmag, PMAGs, Tightwad. It was initially 0.323 deep. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. Yes I had to trim the left side rear notch square before the BC laid perfectly flat. I was curious about how other magazines behaved in the lower so I measured them to simply verify reasonable consistency. Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. Scan this QR code to download the app now. I dont have another LR-308 with which to compare my measurements so I dont know which dimensions are problematic. You are using an out of date browser. Why not just ditch the PMags? If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. Measure the depth of the hole, first. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. JavaScript is disabled. Like you hear military folk say, Ounces equal pounds. And in the case of the PMAG, a full loadout saves the user a bit of weight. Check all your mags, especially PMAGS, but check all mags!! I'll try and grab my camera. If so, it would cause both symptoms. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. The Magpul PMAG is a great, well designed magazine that many people like and use in various rifles around the world, but over the years I have discovered that they are not the best option for me personally. NEVER attempt to cycle the bolt carrier group (manually or otherwise) or fire a round with the action open (receivers separated), as this may cause serious injury or death AND potentially make your rifle non-compliant with laws and regulations! 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. Thanks shooterrex. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. This will severly damage your bolt group over time. So far so good. 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate
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