The Intercept is an independent nonprofit news outlet. I did (it) when I was young and stupid - to impress people.". Bob Fazio, chapter president, refuses to discuss if Castagna was a combat vet. Fake War Stories Exposed - CBS News The Schantags discovered that 24 of those were false entries. Darrow 'Duke' Tully resigned as publisher of the Arizona Republic and Phoenix Gazette newspapers 18 months ago after it was revealed that his claims of having been a combat pilot in Vietnam and Korean wars were false. If you are also in a position of power or authority or prestige, then you might also feel less vulnerable, because you think that people wont challenge you, she said. According to the American War Library, as of February 28, 2019, it is estimated that approximately 610,000 Americans who served in land forces during the Vietnam War or in air missions over Vietnam between 1954 and 1975 are still alive to this day. Seven years later, Chuck and Mary Schantag, whose P.O.W. As for the issue of phony vets: 'Those people have a mental problem. In 2007 Xavier Alvarez, a member of the Three Valleys Water Board in Claremont, California, was asked during a visit to a neighboring board if he wanted to introduce himself. In some cases, too, these bogus ex-warriors are motivated by guilt - a gnawing feeling that they should have fought in America's longest war, psychologists and veteran counselors say. He was driven out of the group. 02 Up to 2 million civilians died in the war. the giveaway as to their agenda because, as a Vietnam Vet I know that most of Joining is simple and . Thieves among honor: counterfeit veterans - Military Times A couple of weeks before June 6, 1994, I was at my desk when the phone rang. The difference here, I believe, is that I find myself talking to these people because of location while others, given there locations, simply don't run into the fakers.I still haven't found out much about this 1995 Census and I believe there was another in 2005 and maybe 2015 there could have been some sort of study run at the time. Burkett candidly admits he's not a writer. Most imposters have no real military knowledge, so they make silly mistakes like wearing an Army patch on the left pocket and a Navy edge on the left sleeve. He had seen the occasional stories about Yandle and, unlike others looking into the saga, he had obtained copies of Yandle's military records from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. The trouble is I dont know where that 12 "Pressure is Vietnam,". Kevin, the only reason I waded into this whole Stolen Valor thing to begin with was because you used this Stolen Valor statistics as justification for dismissing most Roswell witnesses, who you said you previously believed. All this relentless research burbles up in Burkett's 692-page book, "Stolen Valor," which he wound up having to publish himself (Verity Press, at its Web site of www.stolenvalor.com) because, he says, all the mainstream publishers he approached were terrified of being sued. Or maybe you dont even mean it consciously as a trial balloon, but you put something out there, and it works and maybe gets a good reaction. You took part in one of the greatest assaults in U.S. military history?. ElbertAlfie 8 mo. two, then you didnt have to pay federal income tax for the month so, ferrying More than a few 20th century men tried to pass themselves off as the last surviving veterans of the Civil War. My newspaper, the Daily Press of Newport News, Virginia, published an open invitation for those who had taken part in the grand and awful amphibious assault to contact us and share their stories. Nor has military fakery been limited to Americans. I could not believe it. what was claimed in that article is false but there was no warning about the for the last few years I have started asking those wearing the hats where they served in Vietnam. the wording is where everything slides off the rails. Overall, about 3.5 million Americans served in Southeast Asia during the war. Blumenthal's Words Differ From His History - The New York Times Oddly, his charitable endeavors included involvement with local Vietnam veterans groups, which ended in 1994 when he disappeared, only to resurface years later as a con man. Now, extrapolate that across the nation, and imagine the millions of dollars that this runs into.. Nothing had changed, and I saw that the damned press and the public believes this bull--. 05 The total casualties of the war number over 1 million. He said that his unit was 100% anti-war, which I doubt, and in my experience very few of us in Vietnam could be considered anti-war (though I did burn my draft card in Vietnam I figured if everyone else was doing it, I should too but I digress.) Well-known actor Brian Dennehy often shared stories of his service with the Marines in Vietnam. Last winter, John Maughn contacted a veterans' group in Atlanta and begged for help. There is no hard count of how many people have lied about their military service, but one of the best sources on the topic thinks the number is in the millions. Are there people involved in the Roswell case who lied? During that same Census 76% of the men sent to Vietnam were from lower middle/working class backgrounds. I personally believe there are as many American males claiming military service falsely as there are living veterans in America, said B.G. The work led to 48 arrests, the VA recovered $562,888, and authorities levied $1.23 million in fines. Whitley, 43, is of a generation that, as she said, learned about the war largely through their TV sets. guide to other statistical publications and sources both in print and on the In the end, the primary agenda for making up phony facts is the usual one of scammers: $$$$$$$$Yes, there are liars out there, but there is NO VALID evidence for literally millions and millions of Americans claiming to be Vietnam vets who werent, although you obviously still very much want to believe this considering you keep repeating the claim. All others should not be accepted to have served either on land or at sea in Vietnam. The Stolen-Valor Detective: Unmasking People Who Pretend to Be Veterans Of those who said they were in-country most appear to be fake. How common are fake military veterans? (Serious) : r/AskReddit Fake Vietnam combat vets UPI NewsFeature - UPI Archives But mistakes have been made. I said that was funny because I didn't remember seeing him there.Anyway, there are statistics that suggest several million and really comes down to the sources you wish to cite. Take John M. Iannone, a Pittburgh- area oilman whom family members said had it all and was even more admired for his extensive community service. David Rudiak was right about that. since 1980.But AGAIN no 13 to 14 million Vietnam vets based on alleged Census surveys. There can be problems, however. Although it was said that no reputable site had posted DURING THIS CENSUS COUNT, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. 1999-08-13 04:00:00 PDT Dallas -- Jug Burkett's cozy office high up in a big glass-and- steel tower looks more like the cluttered, haphazard digs of a college professor than the lair of a successful stockbroker. I now sometimes wear a hat & look forward to talking to other 'Nam vets.But, for those, playing, I just shake my head.MOS 1141 ElectricianUSMC/DogpatchFeb '69/March '70Semper Fidelis. WASHINGTON -- There is a growing army of imposters hustling for glory, compassion, hand-outs or sometimes just work by posing as Vietnam combat veterans, experts say. According to a January 1893 article about veterans pensions in Harpers New Monthly Magazine, during a three-year period ending in 1879, out of 4,397 affidavits filed for wartime pensions, 3,084 were false at a cost to the government of more than a half million dollars. 'I owe an apology to those who served in Vietnam,' he said. census and then to the 2000 census but did not explain this problem. The suspicion, however, is that it has probably been around as long as people have been on the planet. 1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995 (CENSUS FIGURES). I have been unable to find that precise survey, but this seems to be the place where the 13,853,027 number of impostors comes from. Vietnam Veterans represent the largest cohort of American Veterans in . His story was detailed, yet he under played his role. "I said no such thing. A "Wall of Shame" compiled by former Navy SEAL R.D. First, but then remembered that if you set foot in a combat zone even for an hour or More than 8 million people served in uniform during Vietnam and those who are alive are typically in their 60s and 70s. You can read about this here:http://www.war-stories.com/research-hanson-historical-reflections-2000.htmWhat this does demonstrate is that a minority of men and women who were in the military during the Vietnam era were actually deployed into the combat arena. Other careers, in a variety of fields, have been damaged by similar disclosures. The story was essentially done at that point, but I said, Sure. Heres Telling war stories is as old as war itself, says author B.G. Now, with this book, we have the evidence.". Ironically, maybe the true millions are those vets defrauded by The VVF, not Vietnam vet imposters. Now I see one every six weeks,' said Larry Slessler, head counselor at the Southern Oregon Veterans Outreach Center in Medford, Ore. Burkett, Chronicle News Services, Associated Press photos, Unmasking Phony `Vietnam Vets' / Fakes big factor in negative image, Texas author finds, Dubs fans picking apart video of possible Poole-Draymond incident, Bay Area preschool teacher suspected of dumping body along road, Bay Area mom influencer found guilty of lying about kidnapping, More rain, 'unseasonably chilly' temperatures coming to Bay Area, 'Horrible': Oakland rapper dumps on Chase Center Warriors fans, Destructive landslide closes historic California institution, 49ers out in full force at Warriors-Kings Game 7, Sold-out Berkeley crowd gets rowdy at country star's concert, Shock, fear as 2 killings in 3 days rock quiet Davis. The census count in 1995 apparently Burkett verified that the movie tough guy was indeed a former Marine but had been discharged in 1963, before any Marines were sent to Vietnam. And, oh by the way, a Purple Heart and a few other honors earned. U.S. It is headed by Bob Castagna of Talent, Ore., whose been accused of being a bogus combat vet himself. 'It's some sort of marginal, internal footnote to the Vietnam experience,' said Dr. Arthur Blank, director of the VA's Vietnam Vet Center program, which operates 188 counseling clinics nationwide. You know, you could get yourself a sword and say, Hey, Im home from starving in the Mideast with the Crusaders.. The VA shows on their site https://www.va.gov/opa/publications/factsheets/fs_americas_wars.pdf That only 3,403,000 served incountry in Vietnam, and that a total of 8,744,000 served in that era world wide. Approximately 2.7 million American men and women served in Vietnam. A Department of Defense report suggested that the total number of service members serving during the war was 8,744,000 but this might have included Reserve and National Guard as well as active duty and it also includes the veterans who actually served in country.According to those same DoD figures, 3,403,000 were actually deployed into Southeast Asia, which includes some 700,000 who were not in Vietnam but stationed in Thailand, Guam and the deep water Navy. For years, there had been tales in the Army of "wannabes and fakers," Bateman said, "something that a lot of veterans knew, but it was usually anecdotal. With the Pentagon Papers revelations, the U.S. public's trust in the government was forever diminished. But at the dedication ceremony, despite the hundreds of "normal-looking" vets in the audience -- suits, jackets, neckties on some -- the television news teams immediately gravitated toward "the guys in fatigues and boony hats, the bearded bums. Khe Sanh was one of the war's bloodiest battles -- hundreds of Marines were killed -- but the only killing Yandle was intimately familiar with was the June 1972 slaying of 65-year-old shopkeeper Joseph Reppucci in a Boston liquor store. How to Spot a Military Impostor | The New Yorker Or, in other words, the census did contain some of the information reported and as I said, this, the wording of it, is confusing But Beatons statistics were based on more than just the census. He brought out a shadow box filled with decorations and a folded flag; his kids had made it for him, he said. A raspy voice inquired: Are you all still collecting D-Day stories? aircraft into Vietnam had a financial incentive.) When his unit came home and started gearing up. By Elizabeth Becker . People want to be a certain kind of person they only wish they could be. Between March 1, 2008, and Feb. 25, 2009, the VA investigated 96 cases of "stolen valor" fraud, according to James O'Neill, assistant inspector general for investigations. I doubt there are 10 million of them, but it appears to me there are a lot of fakes. and Capt. 'I'm not going to say we don't care. Service Members, Not Citizens: Meet The Veterans Who Have Been - NPR But I know this didnt just occur starting with the modern wars. He had been a prisoner, but not in Vietnam. This is well within the range of possibility. I believe we can put all this behind us and return to UFOs, treasure hunting, and other areas of strangeness that interests us. Vietnam War veterans, and their families, are being invited to this event to be held at the National Mall on May 11, 12, and 13. This is described as , Statistical Abstract of the United States. They are all repeating the same phony "statistic" of the Stolen Valor book, claiming it is based on Census data. "The ones who always hit me up on the streets, I ask them, 'What was your MOS?' "What he is trying to do, at considerable risk to himself, is to say that this service means something, and by letting just anyone stand up and claim these honors, you're diminishing the real value of those who did serve. Vietnam Vets, Are There Any Vietnam Vets Still Alive Fully Explained I did not look at those sites that required registration, a fee or Yep, that was my outfit, he said. last few years. 569).No. The census figures do confirm the 8.5 million number. ago. They're all around you. . I guess the spell has broken and we are dropping like flies now. All you need to do is look at the numbers he supplies and his agenda is sort of like mine it annoys me that the fakers are out there spouting their nonsense. Smith calls the phenomenon the 'Tail-Gunner Joe Syndrome,' named for Joe McCarthy, the former flag-waving senator from Wisconsin who tried to rid America of communists in the 1950s. to 14 million number originated, how it was collected, or if it was part of Vietnam veteran being told how much his Rolex watch is worth Back at the office, I started typing up my notes, shaking my head at times. I certainly haven't come across it personally. The only number coming out of the census was 8.5 million Vietnam era veterans of which according to other sources, about 2.7 actually served in Vietnam. How many fake Vietnam veterans are there? They lost buddies in Vietnam and are still having difficulty coping with emotions. So it becomes was not saying it was for service in Vietnam. Bill Williamson US Army Vietnam Veteran, Blog of shame. They got in the door with computer-generated or -altered discharge papers known as DD 214 forms. If that was closer to the true figure, then the 200,000 fakers evaporate.Having found maybe a few thousand fakers is a VERY, VERY LONG way (by a factor of at least one thousand) from the 10+ million claimed in the "Stolen Valor" book, allegedly based on Census data, and endlessly repeated in multiple vet publications, including the websites you linked to. I got wounded many times by the same guy. 19 Million Viewers Watched His Story Start To Finish (David Hoffman) How many soldiers died on their first day in Vietnam? Perhaps the idea that the lie about military service ultimately becomes a truth in the phony veterans mind explains what happened with my aspiring D-Day Ranger about two weeks after Id caught him lying. In truth, though, he only was a tail gunner in training. It is noted that these dates may differ from those used to define various veterans benefits. Since you are so death on fraudulent Roswell witnesses, as you should be, I think you would be equally outraged by phony, clearly fabricated statistics, fraudulent references given in support (U.S. Census), and fraudulent veterans charities taking advantage of veterans. claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. Last year, he said, 12 Princeton seniors went into the service. In 2019, approximately 3.4 million Vietnam War Veterans were enrolled for Veterans Health Administration services (12). But in a broader sense, DePaulo said, people lie for the same reasons, no matter what they claim to be. (I wondered about this because it made no sense to me ". Burkett, who served as an Army lieutenant in Vietnam during the war -- he stresses he was no hero and simply did his job as an ordnance officer -- has investigated more than 2,000 cases and found. and reports. And rather than doing the hard work of actually trying to become that person, they just do a shortcut of claiming to be that person., DePaulo believes that most people who tell such lies probably are doing so consciously. b. No, he said, but a former Ranger up in New York did. DePaulo says its not surprising a person already held in high esteem would choose to fabricate a military background. The real Daubmann had been killed in the war. Thailand, Guam and in the deep water Navy, and some statistics on those But as I soon learned, this fellow was hardly the only person who has fabricated or exaggerated wartime exploits. Report comments that violate these rules. to 14 million had claimed to be Vietnam Veterans and subtracted the true number In the military-rich Hampton Roads region, we struck gold: From the pilots who flew the paratroopers to the infantrymen who stormed the beaches, I was able to relate the entire D-Day narrative chronologically, all through veterans eyes. Women Vietnam Veterans and PTSDAnother paper using data from the HealthVIEWS study, published in 2015, found that 20.1 percent of women Veterans who served in Vietnam have . I wondered if some of this didnt come from the Department of Thank you for acknowledging that the actual U.S. Census data does NOT support the claim that the Census has shown 13-14 million people claiming to have been in-country Vietnam vets, or over 10 million fakers (since only about 2.7 million served in-country).For one thing, the claim was always impossible since I am unable to find any question in the ACTUAL Census that asks whether people served in-country. In 1990 and again in 2000, there was a question on the census long form that asked if the respondent was a Vietnam era veteran, and the number generated there was about 8.4 million. Burkett's quest for that evidence started in 1986, when he was asked to help raise funds from private donors for the Texas Vietnam Veterans Memorial. This is all based on his say-so with nothing to back it up. It is veterans of which according to other sources, about 2.7 actually served in The following year, Alvarez was sentenced to more than 400 hours of community service, three months probation and fined $5,000 for violating the Stolen Valor Act a 2005 federal law named for Burketts book. does not seem to be accurate and my review of the census doesnt bear this out. At about 11 p.m., I remembered that local enthusiasts were reenacting the Normandy invasion on the beach at Fort Story, an Army base nearby. whole record for the breakdown of the numbers. Copyright 2023 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved. The project, it would turn out, had a profound effect on her. I called my alleged Ranger back, said I wanted to clear up the unit name and asked him twice to repeat it. I had something I wanted to say, but I can't continue being the enforcer of this thing around the nation. support it. There are many sites devoted to Stolen Valor which had exposed thousands Very few served in Vietnam. But other men (and women) I've run into over the past 4 decades, thousands of them, have mentioned nothing about being Vietnam vets. The efforts of latter-day watch-dogs such as Sterner, Burkett, the Schantags, fake Navy SEALcatcher Steve Robinson and others have given military fakery the appearance of being a modern phenomenon, particularly during the Vietnam era. People younger than Whitley have, for the most part, only the faintest of clues when it comes to understanding the military, and they don't really care about it anyway. awards and decorations they did not earn. In 1983, as the Vietnam Veterans of America was gaining prominence, it was disclosed that one of its spokesman was a fake ex-POW. Like the nonexistent Census data of 10 million fakers, this seems to be all totally made up by Shipley to push his own agenda. Because of the homecoming we got I never brought up Vietnam let alone wore a hat with Vietnam vet on it. I was able to chase it to a survey paid for by the Fund for Vietnam Veterans so it wasnt just the census; a fine point I agree but the census did figure into the statistics.So we can continue this no we cant because Im not going to play anymore. In the spring of 1998, Burkett managed to convince Wallace and others that Yandle was a fake. Accounts vary as to how Daubmanns lies unraveled, but five months after his glorious return, he admitted hed never served in the German army. Their overall agenda makes their warning suspicious and Another at a Veterans Day celebration couldn't identify where he had served other than up north somewhere and seemed unfamiliar with the tactics employed. I run into far more than my share of World War II fakers, said Sterner. Russell lists more than 400 fakes--mostly Vietnam War impersonators revealed in recent years. While the charts do not specifically ask about incountry vets it does show the number grew by almost a million in ten years. I dont even know if it is bogus or Some men were never in the service, many were in the armed forces but never left the United States or never got the medals they claimed, and a few were in Southeast Asia but were far from any of the hot spots in Vietnam, where the war killed more than 58,000 Americans. I found out quickly IF I listed military service, early on for jobs, I did not get the job!Its only since 9/11, that I did start seeing 'Nam unit hats!When I see one or a bumper sticker & the vast majority seem to be genuine. Never in combat, a Marine Times photograph depicts McClanahan spangled with three Silver Stars, two Purples Hearts, and the Legion of Merit. The point is the magazine has a political agenda. "I've got other things I want to do in life, and chasing down phony Vietnam vets is not the way I want to spend it. Whenever I mention Vietnam service, I always point them to the 187th AHC web page. 01 The Vietnam War lasted almost 20 years. You have extrapolated meaning into somewhat innocuous sentences. The Vietnam Memorial in Washington, D. C. Photo copyright by Kevin Randle. Maybe creating phony statistics on nonexistent vet imposters was designed to get vets understandably angry so they would send their hard-earned money to scam vet charities like the VVF. Retired Along the way, Burkett has picked up a few enemies: "There had been some threats, and the brokers and secretaries were afraid of being killed, so they moved me way down the hall to this office." We should be tripping over them in daily life.But just to cite my own anecdotal experience, I have never in my life run into anybody claiming to have been a Navy Seal and only one person bragging about their exploits in Vietnam in Special Forces who I strongly suspected of being a bullshitter. To date, he says (and a check of court records appears to confirm it), nobody has sued him over the book. I called, telling this former Ranger that my guy had claimed to be the assistant platoon leader. He had claimed he flew wording about the four out of five who claim to be Vietnam vets but are not is Natural attrition through mortality should have reduced the number to around 8.2 million surviving Vietnam era vets. So were 47 claiming to have earned service crosses. It's a touching tribute to all Vietnam veterans, their families and supporters.The Vietnam Memorial Wall arrived in Kernersville Thursday and will remain there until May 1.Those who got an up . There have been hundreds of fakers exposed in the press in the Burkett also exposed actor Brian Dennehy's phony claims, in various interviews, of having been wounded as a Marine in Vietnam. organizations., I think In 2007 the effort snagged eight people who were receiving VA compensation for combat injuries, although none had served in combat and two had never served in the military. 8 people who lied about their military service - WPTV https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-schneiderman-announces-settlements-vietnam-veterans-charity-and-its-founderNY Atty General: This Organization Took Advantage Of The Good Will Of MILLIONS Yet Failed To Fulfill Nearly All Of Its Promises To Help Those Who Have Sacrificed For Our Nation.If Beaton and the VVF are the original source of the Census claim, they are hardly a good source. 'My sense is that it has been steadily increasing over the past five years,' said Dr. Greg Andersen, assistant director of the VA hospital in Menlo, Park, Calif. 'They generally fall into two categories: Those who want to enhance the image of themselves, and those trying to prey off the public.'. Type falsify military service into an online search engine window, and one yields tens of thousands of hits relating case after case in which someone has either exaggerated or completely fabricated their military service. might have found, in those census figures somewhere, a report that suggested 12 1991: Established that, in Vietnam Veterans, there does not appear to be a causal relation between homelessness and military service, including exposure to combat; . I was a Ranger. Some individuals who do this also wear privately obtained uniforms or medals which were never officially . that in the 2000 census the number had jumped to 14 million, but again, this Robert French tells us about his remembered involvement with the Roswell crash, but his military record did not support some of his claims. But the 10/05/2017 by militaryphonies. I asked the spokesman if he had a unit roster of some sort. figures).. An archive compiled by a national prisoner-of-war. Point prevalence of PTSD for Vietnam veterans was 9% in the 1980s and for OIF/OEF veterans was 8% (Richardson, Acierno, Frueh, 2010). In 1932 a German, Oscar Daubmann, turned up in his homeland claiming hed been a French prisoner of war for the previous 16 years after his capture at the 1916 Battle of the Somme. It doesn't seem to exist. You might find it more reliable than the other sites but I say it is just as biased in its way as those you reject.I have suggested that these figures were based on the US Census which did, in fact, ask about service during the Vietnam era (which you, yourself, pointed out), but also on numbers gathered from the DoD, such as the numbers of those actually in country, and on a survey conducted by Captain Scott Beaton. He also claimed the Medal of Honor. Veterans Today site also wrote, in big letters, . 'It was out of the high esteem that I hold for you that I took your honor as my own and in doing so did you a grave injustice.'. Blumenthal made a handful of false and misleading statements about having . "But, you know, maybe I'll do a book on all the heroes of Vietnam. It starts off simple enough. Marshal Hanson (and apparently quoted by every vet site as complete gospel), he provides the U.S. Census as the source, just like everybody else:www.veteranstoday.com/2009/02/26/vietnam-facts-vs-fiction/Had you read my post, you would have seen that I quoted this source, including its negative note at the end that was highlighted in yellow and typed in boldface. "In every statistical category that we looked at," he says, "Vietnam veterans were superlative -- their desertion and court martial rates were much lower (than in prior wars) -- and when I started looking at individual cases, I'd find vets who were valedictorians or football stars.
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