On some prewar bus and rail car transmissions with lockup torque converters, the lockup clutch was engaged manually, but automotive lockup clutches are designed to engage and disengage automatically. ), This cookie was set if you clicked the "Disable Google Analytics Tracking" link to prevent the Google Analytics service from tracking your use of the Ate Up With Motor website. I agree that a manual transmission option would be great. To learn more about how Google may use information collected by the Google Analytics service, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, and the Google Privacy Policy. Accessing the login page sets the wordpress_test_cookie, a session cookie that tests whether the user's browser (or other user agent) will allow the cookies needed to log in to the administrative dashboard; this cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). For additional technical information about the cookies used by the analytics service, see their "Google Analytics Cookie Usage on Websites" page; for your reference when reviewing that page, we did not use Google Analytics 4. A Simpson gearset (which Ill be discussing in great detail in the next few days) provides the same number of ratios from only two gearsets, and a single Ravigneaux gearset can give you four forward speeds and reverse if you have enough clutches. (author diagram). (author diagram). The combination of a smaller-diameter and lighter converter means that less engine torque is required for acceleration. Although this arrangement sacrificed some of the smoothness that was the main rationale for early automotive torque converter transmissions, it made Ultramatic more efficient than the early Dynaflow, at least at cruising speeds. The issues of slippage and heat are the main reasons that street converters should be approached with a serious amount of compromise when it comes to stall speed. In third gear, the Studebaker Automatic Drive/Borg-Warner DGs lockup clutch drives the transmissions output shaft at engine speed, providing a completely mechanical direct drive with no hydraulic slippage. If the engine isnt free to turn faster than the driveshaft at rest or extremely low speeds, the engine will stall! This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:54 pm, Post Crazy Egg is a trademark of Crazy Egg, Inc. Optimizely is a registered trademark of Optimizely, Inc. in the United States, EU, and elsewhere. With the advent of overdrive automatic transmissions like the TH200-4R, the TH700-R4/4L60E, the massive 4L80E, the Ford AOD, and all the rest, the new-car companies were striving for improved fuel economy using overdrive. Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool. All engine power flows through the mechanical clutch directly to the input shaft. .. makes you appreciate the thought and consideration that goes into EFILive if only we could clone the boys (and girls) of EFILive, imagine a Delphi Ross and Bosch Ross, By WS600 in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol), By Bradazz in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), By joecar in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87), http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.012-T43-Tables, If this is your first visit, be sure to The stock converter wouldn't with a big tune unless I was cruising at light throttle. If you correctly enter the password, the site saves this cookie on your device to allow you access to the password-protected post or page. T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip - EFILive The multiplication factor is based on the speed difference between the turbine and impeller. I think you should check the fluid level first and foremost. what is the protocol using AE to diagnosis torque slip. . That includes the advanced manufacturing technology being used in optimizing torque converters. if I'm seeing "desired TC slip" of 1020rpm at all times wouldnt that pretty much guarantee the TC would never lock? Some vehicles have a transmission temperature indicator that will let you know when your car's transmission is overheating. Transmission Range) start a datalog or have an assistant drive and watch Torque Converter Slip Actual (TCA) and Torque Converter Slip Desired (TCD). The action you just performed triggered the security solution. The logic of these schematics, which are not to scale and which have been greatly simplified for clarity, is that each color represents a set of components that are integral or otherwise connected so that they always rotate together; clutches, brake bands, planet pinions, and flywheels are shown in black or gray. There are tried and true methods for fixing the five common torque converter issues. We thought 10 was bad 2 years ago. But this shuttering is not caused by a disease. It will read really high numbers until the converter is locked. Post & Tm. I would suggest starting with the transmission upper mount and also a transmission fluid drain and fill. Estimate Converter Slip. i take it your a writer and not a trans guy ,but maybe someone could answer the question. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our. The space ahead of the clutch formed a hydraulic cylinder containing an annular steel piston that acted as a pressure plate. I changed the transmission fluid (Mercon LV) at 63k miles back in 2017. The TC is a viscous coupling. Well Aaron . Think of a lock TC as the clutches in your tranny. (For each of these cookies, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) With no slip at all. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Anyway, I downloaded FORscan on my laptop and loaded several pids for the transmission. However, that clutch was used in a distinctly different way than was Packards. In addition, all page headers, custom graphics, button icons, and scripts related to the PayPal services are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of PayPal. My truck was still putting down 575 on Dunbar's dyno with 100 RPM of slip.. im seeing 20rpm slip at most on my KEM 345, i know thats different. Many times, people think there is something wrong with their transmission when the problem lies with their torque converter. The second thing to look for is a lot of slippage between Desired and Actual readings for the TCC in Forscan. AAMCO Centers are independently owned and operated. Your Transmission Gear Ratio at Finish Line. The information below will outline the most common torque converter issues and their solutions. Torque Converter Slip Measurement / Diagnosis | Ford Explorer - Ford Adding stall speed to the torque converter increases the power available to accelerate the car more quickly. For additional information about how Google uses cookies and/or other technologies that may collect and/or process personal information, see the "Technologies" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site and the "Our advertising and measurement cookies" section of their Google Business Data Responsibility site, which includes a detailed list of cookies associated with Google advertising and measurement products. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. This is why lifting off the throttle in a car with a fluid coupling or torque converter can feel almost like shifting into neutral. For people who want a broader overview, I would recommend a book by Philip G. Gott entitled Changing Gears: The Development of the Automotive Transmission, published by the SAE as part of their Historical Series in 1991. Studebaker-Packard (the two companies merged in 1954) dropped both of these transmissions after the 1956 model year. A converter that might have a stall speed of 5,000 rpm for a pure drag car would be completely miserable on the street. (Those pages do not currently discuss the storage of data in your browser (or other user agent) using technologies other than cookies, e.g., in web storage.) The car became basically undriveable. Logging in sets the wordpress_logged_in_xx, wordpress_sec_xx, and/or wordpress_xx cookies, which store the user's login credentials to allow access to the administrative dashboard and other administrative functions; there may be multiple iterations of each cookie. Its free and only takes a minute, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. When the vehicle is at rest, the fluid clutch slips enough to allow the engine to idle with the transmission in gear without stalling. You are using an out of date browser. The fluid did not look dirty. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. Your car will vibrate even when youre not going very fast. In the event we receive any compensation and/or other valuable consideration for any other content presented on this website, the nature of that compensation or consideration will be disclosed as part of the applicable content and/or otherwise adjacent to it. The turbine and lockup clutch driven plate are both splined to the transmission input shaft (medium blue). check trans fluid. Each PayPal payment or donation button may also incorporate a tracking pixel called "pixel.gif" (which loads from paypalobjects.com). Performance & security by Cloudflare. Primary symptom includes a "rumble strip" like sound randomly while driving at speeds of about 40+. Not all the listed cookies and/or data items are necessarily set in all instances, and there may sometimes be others not listed above, particularly if you are logged into a Google account. For comparison, a four-speed Wilson pre-selector has four planetary gearsets, four sets of brake bands, and a cone clutch, which is a lot of pieces. They may persist for up to two years. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Torque converter slip question I was monitoring some Torque converter params for my 4R55E with my in dash scantool. In the Packard Ultramatic transmission, the input shaft drives the hub of the direct drive clutch and the input sun gear of the Ravigneaux gearset (all colored medium blue). (Until late 1954, the transmissions planetary gearset always remain in direct drive unless the driver manually selected Low.) First, that slip wastes some fuel youre paying for more engine revolutions (and more power) than reach the driveshaft. This overran the rear unit planet carrier, unlocking the rear sun gears one-way clutch and putting the transmission in direct drive. Heat is the enemy of any automatic transmission and will radically reduce its life span if not mediated by an efficient trans cooler. Click to reveal Unfortunately, additional stall speed also increases the slippage in the converter. Packard achieved that goal by treating the engagement of the lockup clutch like an automatic gear change. Being a fluid coupler, your car's torque converter relies on transmission fluid to operate correctly. If oil pressure to the cylinder was relieved, the pressure plate would no longer be held against the clutch plate, disengaging the clutch and allowing the torque converter to function normally. These early units operated on the same principal of using one electric fan to drive another. Off.).) Desired is what the PCM is commanding and Actual is how much it is actually slipping measured in RPM. To learn more about what information the YouTube platform and other Google services may collect through and/or in connection with embedded video players and how Google may use that information, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page and the Google Privacy Policy. I have yet to read this monumental work in depth. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7c0ed4b42f522a79 51.91.16.67 But the most common torque converter problems are listed below. How much torque converter slip is OK? | Chevy Nova Forum Once the brakes (or the transbrake) is released and the vehicle begins to move, the turbine spins up and the speed difference between the two diminishes. When the torque converter starts malfunctioning, you may feel shuddering and even slipping in overdrive. (Both turbines, here colored medium blue, were bolted together into a single unit, but had different blade profiles.) In the diagram above, the yellow arrow again illustrates the flow of power, this time in third (top) gear. abs, do you have any recommendations on how to troubleshoot a failing torque converter using ForScan? Your email address will not be published. copyright 2023 AAMCO transmissions inc. All rights reserved. There may be more than one of these cookies, particularly if you access several password-protected posts with different passwords. i called a trans shop and he had no answer,but it sounded strage to him. Reaction torque locked the rear sun gear against the rear one-way clutch, driving the planet carrier and output shaft forward at 69.7% (1 / 1.44) of turbine speed. For example, if engine speed is 2,500 rpm, the turbine might only turn 2,375 rpm: hydraulic slippage of 5%. The DG series transmissions obtained their indirect ratios with a compound planetary gearset. (At this point, an updated, expanded edition wouldnt go amiss, given all the subsequent development in CVTs and automatics with five or more speeds.). For most hot street engines, converters in the 2,200 to 2,600-rpm range are considered streetable but will still require a very efficient trans cooler to keep them out of the heat zone. They normally expire after about one year. The annulus (purple) is held in reverse, idles in low, and rotates with the sun gears in direct drive. If the solenoid is not regulating the fluid flow properly, it could cause variability in the torque converter clutch performance as well. However, that did not cure the shuddering problem. abs thank you for posting your experience here. This means that at a 2:1 torque multiplication ratio, an engine that is making 300 lb-ft of torque at a stall speed of 2,500 rpm will actually apply 600 lb-ft of torque to the input shaft of the transmission as the car leaves the starting line. Signs of a Failing Torque Converter [and How to Fix it!] Currently the vehicle is much better to drive. Most street cars cannot keep the rear tires from spinning if you add too much throttle, and this tends to limit the stall speed. (author diagram). The torque converter is made up of five parts: 1. Tire slip is likely causing your speed difference. However, such a lockup clutch cant remain locked all the time. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. This and the GM automatic history are probably the most definitive descriptions of these technologies on the Internet, excepting pure design and engineering treatises. To learn more about the specific cookies used and/or to fine-tune your available choices, click "Privacy Preferences" at the right. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. Any slip is bad. Since taking all the of the steps outlined above, I can confirm that the transmission has been running properly and the clutch working as expected. Your email address will not be published. Ate Up With Motor's Terms of Use and Privacy Policy may be revised from time to time. Its weird its not noticable as even a new soft engaging lock up but it acts somewhat like it has one. The speed difference between impeller and turbine is simply lost to heat within the operating fluid. The result will be every car will have efficient, smooth, and comfortable rides. Most street torque converters tend to operate in the 3 to 5 percent slippage range, but this can go as high as 8 percent. In second, the low band was released and the multi-disc clutch engaged, causing both ring gears to rotate at turbine speed. If your car transmission keeps overheating, you may also notice your transmission starts to act funny, or it may even go into fail date and stay in one gear and not shift at all. sir im having an issue with my 93 f150 aod. Even though Dyno numbers are just a number, For reference my 2018 Gen3 made 400rwhp/390rwtq stock with 5k miles on a Dynojet,, It hit the speed limiter at 6700. Some persist for only a few minutes, or until you close your browser (or other user agent); others may remain in your browser (or other user agent) as long as your individual settings permit. The knock sensor wire harness connector was loose. 4. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. This slowly turns the blades of the driven fan in the same direction. its the mechanically controlled aod. there were around 6 defaults that popped up. Twice last week, when I came up to a stop light, the engine bogged down to 400rpm then recovered back to normal idle. This is a remarkably broad, convoluted, and idiosyncratic field and theres a LOT I dont know. A reverse band surrounds a brake drum connected to the front carrier, which is also integral with the rear annulus (orange). This is a red flag that lets you know you may need an expert to repair it for you. Doesn't seem to coincide with vehicle shifting though. These cookies expire in about 15 days if the user clicks "Remember Me" when logging in; if not, the cookies normally expire when the user closes their browser (or other user agent), or, failing that, within about two days. Unlike a clutch where a friction plate makes physical contact with another plate and ideally the two rotate at exactly the same speed when fully engaged. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. Your car's automatic transmission has a torque converter. For all the administrative and login cookies described here, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash while "UID" will be the administrative user's user ID number in this website's WordPress database. That could be within the margin of error for the sensor. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our Comment Policy please read it first! I did the trans relearn today with the Spartan 275 tune. The DG series transmissions were notionally three-speed automatics (although early iterations were designed to start in second gear) with a torque converter lockup clutch. It may not display this or other websites correctly. As the new owner of a 92 Alante with the viscous clutch I wondered what the difference was. The cookieconsent_status cookie recorded whether or not you consented to analytics tracking and told the website to hide the notification banner; this cookie normally expires after about one year. Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Ford Flex 1. and 2. Akamai is a registered trademark or service mark of Akamai Technologies, Inc. in the United States (Reg. The first automatic transmissions employed what was called a fluid coupling to connect the crankshaft with the transmission. That should make you and your car happy. He wondered if something internal may be damaged and the tow tune showed it up not allowing the torque converter to unlock soon enough which caused the bog down issue. The stator redirects fluid from the turbine to the impeller, radically increasing the force of the fluid entering the impeller and multiplying the torque input from the engine. In order to get a realistic value, use: Your finish line MPH (from ET slip) Your finish line RPM. Those gear ratios were in addition to the torque multiplication provided by the torque converter. by Silver Flex SEL. When that connection is fully engaged, the fluid clutchs torus members are effectively locked together they must turn together at engine speed and transmit no torque. 2. Your ring and pinion (gear size) Your circumference or roll out of the rear tires. Clutch material, bearing and bushing pieces, and a shiny metal flake appearance will be an indicator that things are coming apart inside. another masterpiece. With the torque slip PID on the DashDAQ. These torque converters allow some slippage but it should not vary much from the desired PCM value. With the clutch engaged, Ultramatic also transmitted some drivetrain vibration that the torque converter would otherwise have absorbed. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. It is the lack of fluid that causes overheating, slipping, or shuddering.
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